New EC chief to don cleaning gloves

Incoming Election Commission chairman Azhar Harun aims to change the public’s perception by cleaning up the electoral roll first among others. He speaks to PHILIP GOLINGAI and ASHLEY TANG on issues he will be pursuing.

The Star: How do you feel now that you’re appointed as EC chairman?

Azhar Harun: I am honoured to be entrusted with this very important job, with the confidence in me and my ability but I am of course conscious of the fact that it is a huge trust and task ahead. I can only assure the people that I will do my best to perform this task and hope for the best but I do intend to perform this task and trust in accordance with the Constitution and the law.

Q: Is it life changing?

A: It is life shifting from the life of a private citizen, I am now a civil servant. It is a life shifting event.

Q: How has it shifted your life so far? A: A lot. Like going to work, I do that every day. But now I cannot write anymore, I cannot express my opinion freely anymore. I cannot express support for one against another. So, that I have to be conscious of that, and I am conscious of that even now. In that sense, because that is my nature. My nature is that I observe, I analyse and I voice out. And that is what I have been doing all this time and now I have to stop doing that?

Q: What is your first priority as EC chairman?

A: My top priority is not to get scolded by Karim Raslan on national TV. I think that encapsulates my position. Not getting scolded means I have to do the job properly, that’s the top priority. Of course, we will try to meet the country’s expectations, which are quite high and the reasonable expectations must be met within the confines of the current framework and of course within the confines of the reform framework that is going to be adopted in the future.

Q: Why Karim Raslan?

A: I think it was an iconic moment during GE14 on the night of May 9 during the announcement of the result, I think that just about encapsulates the anger and disappointment of the people against the EC, rightly or wrongly and against the performance of the EC that night. It culminated in that I think and that is why I say it encapsulates the situation, rightly or wrongly. Q: You mentioned country’s expectations, what are the country’s expectations?

A: Well, I think they expect an impartial election commission. They expect an efficient EC, they expect a fair EC. I just took office, and I am not even in office yet. The general perception that I have observed as a private citizen is such that the EC suffer from a lack of those elements. Of course, I think personally if you ask me, when we look at the EC we have to look at two different tiers – first is the workforce, and then the top tier, ie, those who come out with policies.

On the workforce, I think I inherit an excellent workforce. The EC has been organising, regulating general election for years and they have done it successfully. Organising general elections is a mammoth task, it involves millions of people, voters, tens of thousands of volunteers and they have done it successfully all this while without major incident. At the operational level, the EC has a very good workforce and they have delivered time and time again. They are the unsung heroes of the EC.

But what the public see are all the policies or the policymakers up there, above the workforce, and here lies probably the problem. The policies have blighted the EC and have even impacted the workforce. My first priority is to assure the workforce they have done well and I have to shield them from whatever bad perception that the EC may suffer from the public. At policy level, it is my responsibility to correct the policies. That’s how I see it. Q: One of the expectations, EC chairman is to be impartial, but through the years you have been seen to be partial. So, how will you be?

A: Of course, I am deeply conscious of that, in fact when I was approached to be nominated that was my first reservation, as I have been doing this all this while, how could I be perceived as impartial but I was thinking about it, I did all those things as a private citi zen. As a professional I did all those things. I wrote, I observed, I analysed, I criticised. But those are done in exercising my freedom of expression, as a citizen. So, now my observing days, my criticising days, my talking days are over.

Now is my time to work, to make the situation better. So, I have to work in accordance with the constitutional and legal framework that is available and that will require me to be impartial and I intend to do that. And that was what I’ve been shouting all this time. So it is time for me to do what I wanted the previous people do. I don’t see any conflict in that.

Q: Will you stop writing and doing videos?

A: My talking days are over, my criticising days are over. Now it is my doing days.

Q: Can you tahan (resist)? You look like someone with an opinion.

A: I have to. It comes with the territory and once I take the job, I just have to work and forget the rest. Now is time for me to face what other people say about me. So, it is a reverse.

Q: If you’re criticised, what will you do?

A: If I am criticised I will of course take note of the criticism and if the criticism is justified, then I will have to make myself better. If it is not justified then it does not matter to me. Q: In GE15, will you go out and vote?

A: GE15? Of course.

Q: Who will you vote? A: Ha ha ha.

Q: What’s rotten about the EC?

A: I can’t really say what is rotten about the EC without being in the office and look at what has happened and the reason behind that and so on and so forth. But I can tell you the perception is that the EC may have not performed its duties in accordance to the law, that’s the perception, like the redelineation exercise that they took prior to the GE14. There are of course critiques about the result of that exercise that resulted in the moving of voters from one constituency to another in accordance to race and religion that resulted in malapportionment of constituencies.

You know some constituencies have 25,000 voters with one MP and we have another with 170,000 voters with one MP. So, because of all those things, the perception is that the EC has not really done well in the past. Then of course there is this perennial problem about our electoral role, we have 104yearolds still voting and then we have addresses which have 10 to 17 voters in one address, that kind of thing. I’m quite sure most of them could be explained. We need to look into those things urgently. Q: You mention about redelineation, what are you going to do? Because there are seats like Kapar that have about 120,000 voters compared to maybe Kangar with only 55,000 voters. Will you do something about it?

A: The problem with redelineation is that it is provided in the Constitution that the exercise can only be done once in every eight years. The one that was done earlier this year, the question is that are we going to get stuck with that for the next eight years? So, I will have to look into that on how to address that issue. There are of course other mechanisms that may trigger a new exercise and we have to decide whether they are needed to be done.

All that I have known about redelineation is after reading all the critiques and the observation during the general election. I have not really looked into it in depth but of course it is one of my priorities. I will look into it and I will consult all stakeholders and then a decision must be made on what to do with it. Of course, I have not discussed it with anybody else, it is my plan to form a stakeholder engagement initiative within the EC where we will sit, listen to and consult with all stakeholders, all political parties – government or opposition, NGOs, civil societies and any groups interested in making our electoral processes better. So, that will be one of the initiatives I am thinking of. Q: Do you think it is fair that, like Kapar has so many voters and there is only one MP among the 100,000 voters? What do you think?

A: No. Even on the face of it, it doesn’t sound fair, right? How could a constituent with 25,000 (voters) having one MP and a constituent of 160,000 also having one MP? That strikes at the core of democracy, representative democracy where small number of people can get one representative and a huge number of people can also only get one representative. That needs a relook.

Q: Phantom voters?

A: Of course. I say we have to relook those 104yearolds who are still voting. Phantom voters in a sense that they don’t exist at all. Somebody else may be carrying the IC to vote for them, although I do not know how prevalent this problem is. In regard to those 104yearold or 94yearold or whatever, there is an explanation and I’ve seen it before.

The National Registration did not inform the EC on the death of these people or they may have been dead but there is no death certificate. That’s the problem. The EC cannot just look at the electoral roll and find the 104yearold and strike them out. They can’t.

They need to wait for the death certificates

and then do the necessary. So, if there is no death certificate, the EC is stuck because the procedure is as such. That’s why I say, some of the criticism against the EC can be explained. Even the address with more than 10 voters, it can be explained. Because in some of the kampung areas, there are no house numbers. So, when they want to go and register as voters, they use one house with one address. But of course, this is also abused by some parties. We will look into that. Q: How about partyhopping? You have written about it. What would you do?

A: I cannot comment on that because it is out of the purview of EC. This is the matter of governmental policy, a matter of legislative policy that our parliament may wish to consider. So, I better not comment on that. Q: You have also written about bribery and treating in elections. How are you going to “treat” this?

A: This is one area which is one of my concerns as well. These are actually covered in the Electoral Offences Act. Bribery, treating, these are two examples of election offences. But the problem is the EC does not have investigative powers, nor do we have prosecutorial powers at all. What can be done is that we refer this to investigative authorities to investigate and take the appropriate actions.

However, we have regulatory powers. During campaigning, we can stop it but that has not been done all this while. So I would like to see a stronger approach towards the enforcement of the Election Offences Act. The allegations of those wrongdoings are quite prevalent and there must be a clear line drawn to what a caretaker government may or may not do, from the onset of election until the election day. Because whatever they do may become treating or corruption or bribery.

Q: What’s your opinion on Mat Sabu (Defence Minister Mohamad Sabu) on his announcement that he will renovate the houses of the armed forces in Port Dickson?

A: I won’t comment on that now. I can’t comment on that now. Q: Prime Minister Tun Dr Mahathir Mohamad said he does not know you but there is a picture of you sitting next to him. What are your thoughts on this?

A: I have met Dr Mahathir four times in my life, twice at Marina Mahathir’s Hari Raya open house, once at a forum which I was moderating where we ended up being thrown slippers and flares at. Fourth at that dinner. That was a dinner recently where it was a Bersatu dinner where the organiser put me to sit beside him. And I can tell you this, the fourth time I met him, each time I had to introduce myself “I am Azhar”. He was nonchalant. He does not know me and the mere fact that I sat beside him does not mean that he knows me. I don’t think he does and we never talked about this that night. I have met (Datuk Seri) Anwar Ibrahim once, and as the same, I don’t think he knows me. Q: Bersih calls for a review for our electoral system from the firstpastthepost to a proportional representation. What are your thoughts on that?

A: That is interesting. I do not know what new system they want or they are proposing. Like a presidential system? (Italian system) that will entail a new democratic structure, major constitutional amendment. It will take a long time to even make the constitutional change let alone to talk about the actual implementation of it. We will look at what they have in mind and whether it is workable or not.

But that will go to the very basic of the Westminster democracy that we practice. Our Constitution is based on the Westminster democracy that we practice now and that will go against that basic structure. That is how herculean the proposal and the task is.