Total Film interview
WHEN I LOOK BACK ON MY FILMS, IT REALLY REPRESENTS THE WAY I THINK… YOU CAN’T SELL OUT TOO MUCH. OTHERWISE IT SHOWS
Vincent Cassel on crime caper The World Is Yours, plus playing fat guys, and fatherhood.
He’s one of the most successful French actors of his generation, going to extremes in everything from La Haine to Black Swan. Now Vincent Cassel returns to screens in delirious crime caper The World Is Yours. Total Film meets a star who really does – like the title says – have the run of the globe.
At Paris’ Hotel du Collectionneur, UniFrance – the annual promotional push for French cinema – is in full flow. By far the biggest (and busiest) star here is Vincent Cassel. Tanned and lean, the Frenchman has just flown in from Brazil three days ago. After years living in South America, he’s based back in France now. “I became a French resident, for family matters really,” he explains. Last August, he married model Tina Kunakey; they are expecting their first child this year.
To filmgoers, Cassel is better known for his first marriage – to Italian siren Monica Bellucci. They met on the set of 1996 thriller L’Appartement, married three years later, had two daughters – Deva, now 14, and Léonie, eight – and regularly reunited on screen in everything from Jan Kounen’s ultra-violent Dobermann to 18th Century swashbuckler Brotherhood Of The Wolf and the cause célèbre that was Gaspar Noé’s rape-revenge tale Irréversible.
While they divorced in 2013, and international icon Bellucci went on to star in 007 movie Spectre, Cassel has himself
enjoyed a huge English-language career. He’s played the Duc d’Anjou in Elizabeth, the gymnastic jewel thief in Ocean’s Twelve and the manipulative ballet director in Black Swan, not forgetting films for David Cronenberg (Eastern Promises, A Dangerous Method), Paul Greengrass (Jason Bourne) and Danny Boyle (Trance).
Yet the 52-year-old has never given up on world cinema. Right now, he can be seen in The World Is Yours, the second movie by French promo director Romain Gavras, after 2010’s Our Day Will Come, in which a shaven-headed Cassel ran riot as a troubled psychiatrist. Both films saw Cassel credited as a producer, something he’s done only occasionally – usually for his more extreme works such as Sheitan, in which he stunned as a cross-dressing, devil-worshipping shepherd.
Premiering in Cannes last year, The World Is Yours is a vibrant comedythriller, borrowing from Pulp Fiction-era Tarantino and De Palma’s signature Scarface. In one of his most deliciously comic performances, Cassel plays Henri, a dopey ex-con obsessed by signs, symbols and secret societies, who gets dragged into a drug deal organised by his domineering girlfriend’s son. In France, it’s gone down a storm. “A lot of people are seeing it,” beams Cassel.
In many ways, it takes Cassel back to his roots, when he burst onto the scene in 1995’s La Haine as a skinhead called Vinz, causing all sorts of mayhem in the riot-torn banlieues. Not that he’s working class. “I’m not a ‘projects’ boy,” he once said. His mother, Sabine, was a journalist and his father was acclaimed French actor Jean-Pierre Cassel, best known to English-speaking audiences for playing King Louis XIII in the 1973 version of The Three Musketeers.
The energetic Cassel never got hung up on his privileged background; he’s played rich and poor and worked all over the world – last year in South Korean movie Default, this year in Chinese tennis tale Li Na. He’s even now thinking about making the leap into TV (with The World Is Yours on Netflix in some territories). An idea he’s “fought against for a long time”, he’s now getting calls. “It’s funny,” he smiles, “how the planets sometimes align themselves.”
You first worked with Romain Gavras on 2010’s Our Day Will Come. Now you’re back together for The World Is Yours. What is it you like about him?
The first feature he directed, I produced – and of course when you produce a movie, you’re always a bit worried. He was fairly young. I was like, “I hope he has the maturity!” And he does. I would see the way he would embrace the role of being a director on a feature and how he would be able to switch from one decision to another because he had to. I thought he had a lot of maturity. He’s a fairly big guy with a beard – he made me think of Sergio Leone. I’m pretty sure Romain is going to become one of the most important French directors of our time, and he will be there for 45 years. He has this stability and the talent… we’ve just seen a glimpse of what’s coming.
How did you take on the character of Henri for The World Is Yours?
I knew a guy like that when I was younger. This kind of a guy who spent too much time in jail. He was disconnected from what happened while he was in jail. He was a dangerous guy, he was a thief. Maybe he killed some people. But he was a nice guy! He paid for it and it felt like his brain was a bit burned. Sometimes, you would say something to him and you could see the path of his thoughts through his eyes. That’s what I was trying to recreate with this one.
Did you change your appearance for the part? You seem a little heavier-set…
Personally in life, I like to be fit because I like to be ready for any kind of situation. But I’ve played fat guys! So when I shot that movie, I was in pretty good shape but I tried to make him a little more vulnerable, physically, so we had the belly and we messed with the hair and the teeth were not very healthy.
The film is a real crowd-pleaser. Do you feel it’s more accessible than your earlier film with Romain?
Yes, that was more esoteric. The good thing about the movie, and I think it’s one of the main qualities… it’s pretty different to what we usually do in France. It feels like there is a modernity to it. French people can be very critical. When something is too French, they say, “Ah, it’s too French!” We want to have our own modernity somehow. When a movie achieves that and gets across with something new and modern, a certain kind of audience is very happy with that.
Are French audiences wary of embracing certain new films?
No, no. France has always been very welcoming… even American authors are more known in France than in America somehow. We also have a very strong movie culture here and somehow the movies are very respected. But we have a tendency to make a lot of movies that won’t travel because they’re too French, in sense of humour, in a bad way I would say. So when some people are trying new stuff, a certain kind of audience in France is very happy, I would say.
That’s very diplomatic!
It’s not diplomatic. I’m trying to say it in a way so it doesn’t look like it’s antiAmerican or anti-French. It’s a little more subtle than that. French people critique everything! I had a t-shirt saying: [in French] “I don’t like anything, I’m Parisian!” It’s an attitude. French people complain all the time. It could be seen as a defect but it’s a quality. That’s what’s happening right now with the gilet jaunes [protestors] – people don’t accept things. They complain, they’re not happy with what they have, they want more somehow. It’s a good thing.
You’ve been in the business for a quarter of a century. What’s been your approach to your career?
I’m trying to enjoy what I do as much as I can and I don’t really have plans. I try to stay free as much as I can. I heard [Robert] De Niro saying years ago, when I was a young upcoming actor, “The talent of an actor resides in his choices.” I was like, “What the fuck does he mean by that?” And then I thought, “As an actor on set? Or the choices of the movie you make?” And, actually, I think it’s both. So, yeah, it’s really about the choices you make. Now, when I look back on my films, it really represents the way I think and what I am as a person. So you can’t sell out too much. Otherwise it shows.
Your father was an actor. Did you want to be an old-school performer like him when you were young?
That’s what I was aiming for. And maybe on the way I’ve learned a bunch of stuff. I like the idea that through what I do, I complete myself as a person. I’m always ready for new experiences and new languages to learn. I love when what you do becomes part of your revolution. Old-school? I don’t know… I feel very old-school and I feel very new-school, too.
Did you have a strong relationship with your father?
I mean, I’m an actor because of him and I would put it to the extent where I would
FRENCH PEOPLE COMPLAIN ALL THE TIME, BUT IT’S A QUALITY
choose that path of acting – being bad guys – because he was such a nice guy on screen. When you think about it, you go around and then come back to the same because, nowadays, when I see myself in movies, I look like him even more.
Did having kids change you?
I don’t think it’s a choice. I don’t think you say, “Now I have to change.” First of all, there is this belief that kids are going to make you better as a person. I wish! If suddenly, when you have kids, you become a wonderful person, there wouldn’t be as many fucked-up kids!
You first came to attention in Mathieu Kassovitz’s La Haine, which made a real splash in Cannes in 1995. What were you like then?
Less conscious, a bit shy. But I remember when we came to Cannes with La Haine, I didn’t feel comfortable. Because of the subject matter, because of what we were trying to say – we wanted to revolutionise and we wanted to tell the truth about what was going on. In Cannes, it’s beautiful but it’s like a fake monster. Everybody comes, nobody has time… it’s empty in a way. I felt like we didn’t fit. And we didn’t fit in a way. But at the same time, it was a wonderful opportunity for the movie and to make a little noise.
Were you surprised that it left such a lasting impact?
It took me years to realise the kind of impact it really had, because you have to go to places, and plus to really understand if a movie has some kind of an impact, you need time. If, after 15 years, people talk about it with passion, it might mean that it was meaningful. I am surprised now by the fact that people still talk about it in such a vivid way. But look at it; it’s still happening today in Paris, so it’s still relevant.
Back then, were you ever attracted to performing on stage?
I was a long time ago, but I’m not really attracted by it anymore. I really became a movie actor. You have to learn a lot of lines [in the theatre]… it’s not really that but you have to go back to the same place every night. It makes me sad. I like to travel around. I like to move. I like to be in touch with different kinds of people. That became my life. I don’t feel like I want to go back on stage.
Did you ever get in trouble with a director for not saying your lines?
Actually once, on the movie The Monk [helmed by Dominik Moll]. I was ready to do as I usually do. And the guy said, “No, no, you have to respect this.” So I did it exactly how he wanted me to do it. I learned my lines and it was totally minimalistic. Then the movie came out and I showed it to some friends of mine and I asked them, “Which is your favourite scene?” And they pointed to one scene. It was the only scene where I didn’t say the lines and I didn’t do exactly what he wanted me to do.
From Dobermann to Irréversible, a lot of your early movies were very violent. Was that something you were looking for back then?
No, not violence. I ended up making a lot of violent movies, but it’s not like I was looking for violence. I’m always looking for personality and to be fascinated by the person I’m working with – in the director and the project. If it’s to do something I’ve seen many times, I’d rather go do something else.
When you played a key role in Steven Soderbergh’s
Ocean’s Twelve in 2004, it was the start of a run of Hollywood movies for you. Did it feel that way?
Well, Soderbergh is not a typical Hollywood director. He has a final cut, he was producing this with his friends. So it was very glittery, but it wasn’t a typical Hollywood studio movie, for sure.
What made you choose Black Swan with Darren Aronofsky?
Pi. I really liked Pi. And since Pi, I was following what he was doing – and I always thought he was one of the most interesting directors of his generation, Americanwise. So when he calls [you answer]… And when he was doing The Fountain, we were doing a movie called Blueberry [aka Renegade], which was about Shamanism and psychotropics. And there were a lot of things in common about the two movies, so I knew he had a relationship with that aspect. Plus working with young directors for years, like I did with Mathieu Kassovitz, Jan Kounen and Gaspar Noé… I felt like it was the same thing working with him. It was natural. It was organic, as we say. We were on the same page. Maybe it’s a question of generation, I don’t know.
CANNES IS BEAUTIFUL, BUT IT’S LIKE A FAKE MONSTER
Ballet was a world you knew, right?
My father danced a lot. He was called ‘the French Fred Astaire’. I guess through him, I had this taste for movement in general. So I started at the circus school. When you do that, you have to go through ballet, and I fell in love with ballet, so I kept on doing it for six years, on a daily basis. Not to be a dancer but just as a complement for my acting. I had this idea that actors should know how to do everything. Then I understood that it wasn’t like that – and you just have to pretend.
You’ve worked with David Cronenberg twice so far – on Eastern Promises and A Dangerous Method. Was he similar to Aronofsky?
Strangely enough, I think they have things in common; maybe the fascination for the body-horror material. The same subject matter, every once in a while. David is not American at all, he’s actually Canadian, and Darren is not really American – he’s from Brooklyn. But they both have a European quality to what they do. A dark European quality!
Did you meet any real Russian gangsters on the set of Eastern Promises?
No. Let me think about it… they were not gangsters. I don’t know what they were doing, to be honest. They looked shady. But they didn’t have a gun I could see. But they were shady, and they were Russian! They really liked the film!
A Dangerous Method dealt with Freud and Jung. Did you get into their thinking?
You mean, did I do therapy? I did, actually. It was great. I’d do it again! Reading Jung for the first time, I realised what those guys wrote is now accessible for anybody. Everybody knows about it. What happened when you were young might have an effect on who you are today. It’s something that anybody knows, even though it’s very complex. And the other thing that was really, really amazing by getting into this world was how close it was to Shamanism. I was amazed. You see the drawings that Jung was doing – and he was totally clean, no drugs, nothing. It’s exactly the same kind of stuff that the Native Americans are doing with the psychotropics in the forest. It’s about the subconscious.
You were also directed by Paul Greengrass on Jason Bourne. What made you go for that?
It’s one of the classiest franchises on the market. And Paul, he’s a wonderful director. He kept on saying, “It’s a popcorn movie,
it’s a popcorn movie.” But the way he talks about it is a real directing process. He comes from documentary, so he’s looking for that flavour and the process to make it work. And to make those incredible nonrealistic things look real is not an easy task and he does it the best, I think. Paul Greengrass invented that style.
You’ve often played characters that shift moods very quickly. Why?
Humanity is like that. We’re full of contradictions and paradoxes, and we have to deal with it all the time. So that’s why I’m attracted to those characters, I think. It’s not only in the English-speaking movies where I do that. That’s what I started with. La Haine was like that. Irréversible was like that. Everything I did in France. So I don’t feel like I’ve been typecast. I feel like I’ve been building my identity as a person, through my choices.
You once called Gérard Depardieu your “cinematic father”. You worked with him on the 2008 two-part real-life gangster saga How was he?
Mesrine. I love Gérard Depardieu! But at the same time, he’s an animal. He’s so instinctive, so that if he feels that he can do it, he will – whatever it is. He’s like a kid, too. If he feels like he can pick on you, he’s going to end up sitting on your head. So, what do you do with somebody like this? You want to put up a wall, but at the same time you want to be friends. It’s all about how you play around.
What was it like to make a movie split into two instalments?
It was long hours, and a long shoot – nine months is a long shoot. And the weight [I put on was difficult]. I would throw up in the morning because I was eating too much and it was going against nature. But every day, I’m not kidding… I would go on the internet, and my director [JeanFrançois Richet] was on MSN, and we would talk. And more or less every day we’d say, “It was fucking great today!” To be on a set… it should be like this. You have to be happy to be there. If you’re bored, it really shows. It was important to me. It was showed everywhere and people reacted pretty well to it. It was at a moment in my life – I’d turned 40.
It’s curious that it came out in 2008, the same year as Soderbergh’s two-part Che Guevara effort…
The funny thing is, when I was shooting Ocean’s Twelve, I was already involved with Mesrine. And I was talking to Soderbergh saying, “I don’t know what to do. They
want me to do this thing – and it’s the story of this gangster, but it’s a real story, and they want to make two movies.” And he said, “If you want to make the life of somebody, you have to choose one moment of his life and focus on that. So you should make one movie!”
You’re coming up in Underwater with Kristen Stewart. A good experience?
It was fun. It’s like a big monster movie at the bottom of the sea. It was a fairly big production. It was funny to go from The World Is Yours to this… it’s a different system, a different hierarchy, a different tone, a different narrative, really. But the fun thing for me is to be able to jump from one genre to another. It’s my idea of freedom.
Do you feel your English-speaking movies have been good to work on?
Pretty good. Some of my English-speaking experiences are called ‘Hollywood’ here, but are not Hollywood at all. Aronofsky’s Black Swan, that was definitely a very independent movie. The movies I did with [David] Cronenberg were very independent, too. So, yeah, I go wherever. Last year I did a movie in Korea. Right now I’m shooting in China, a Chinese movie – it’s called Li Na. And it’s a 100 per cent Chinese movie. It’s about a tennis player, the only Chinese champion. It’s a biopic – and I’m the coach!
What are your tennis skills like?
Thank God, I don’t have to play!
Has working in China proved to be a real culture shock?
Yes and no. The interesting thing is that there is no stardom. There are stars – I was working with one of the biggest Chinese stars and they received me as one. But then when you’re on the set, nobody is going to bring you a coffee! Literally, there is no chair to sit on. If you want one, you have to ask for it, and they will give you a little wood box. I guess that has to do with communism and everything, but it’s pretty refreshing actually. When I said, “Where is my trailer?”, they said, “There is no trailer!” I said, “Can I have a room?” The first day… literally, I got on set and said, “Where do I change?” and it was cold and there was a little tent, but the tent wouldn’t go down to the floor! I said, “No, no, this is not going to work at all! You’ve got to at least give me a room!” So they kind of gave me a room, but this room is like a cupboard where you put the brooms! In that sense, it was very different. But then when you’re on set, it goes very fast because they don’t really have the money to shoot a lot. Two takes and we move on! I like that!
You’re not really the sort of actor who acts like a big star and comes with an entourage, though, right?
That’s very expensive. Simple, fast, effective… that’s what I like. It’s all about freedom, really. Freedom of movement. Freedom of speech, eventually. I take it as a compliment. Usually, when people act like stars, it means they’re assholes. Now to be a little more serious, when people need to act like that, it’s just a lack of confidence. It’s a waste of time and energy.
WHEN PEOPLE ACT LIKE STARS, IT MEANS THEY’RE ASSHOLES
What part of the acting process is still the most fun for you?
Between action and cut. The waiting sucks. When you’re a younger actor, everything is interesting. Now what I really enjoy is that moment that is really the acting moment. Even to watch the movies nowadays is not as interesting as it used to be for me. I mean, I have to do it. But only once!
THE WORLD IS YOURS OPENS ON 26 APRIL.